All right, so welcome in, Sarah and Grant — so great to have you here today. How'd you guys meet? Well, oddly enough, the four of us were all at the Mary Claire Haver book signing. These two guys were probably two of the very few guys actually in that audience, I might add — I think there were like five, maybe. And then after that, with Dr. Morgan, I was able to get in touch with Sarah, and we've started doing some personal training. That is super exciting; we've really enjoyed that.
It's been great getting to know you and understanding how we have synergies and can work together. And it is such a needed collaboration — between medicine and personal training, it's just so necessary. Everybody's on the same page, it seems like, and we're definitely better together than working separate.
What Inspired You to Get Into Fitness?
So, tell us a little about you guys — what inspired you to get into the fitness industry?
For me, it was kind of a little different, probably, than most. Fitness wasn't really a big thing for me, but sports was. I had the reverse of what most of my clients had — I was really small and skinny and was never able to perform at the highest level because of my small stature. Everybody's always like, "Oh, that must be nice," but gaining weight was always a problem for me. I was fortunate to play collegiate sports, but I was always small-framed, and in the process of doing everything everybody told me — "Hey, you'll gain weight doing this, eat pizza, do this" — I was having the reverse effect. After a couple years of trying all these things, my older brother, who has no problem with lean muscle mass and was into fitness a lot, said, "Hey, let me tell you what you're doing wrong. You're doing things that don't fit you, that don't mold you correctly, that aren't actually designed to help you gain weight — you're working out wrong." He took me under his wing, and I saw a massive shift in not only confidence but I started gaining weight. People started noticing the changes, and it helped my performance in the sports I was playing in college. So I started thinking, this is something other people are probably struggling with too — that's how I got into fitness, in that space of making changes in your body and health.
For me, it might be a little different. I've gone through life playing sports and being competitive, but I don't feel like I really understood wellness and fitness until midlife, which I think is like a lot of people. I was married and had kids and thought I could run my way to a better body and start to feel better. In fact, I would say I didn't even know I felt bad until after I joined Better You Fitness — and that was about eight years ago. I started learning about nutrition and strength training, which I had never done — even as an athlete, I had never done strength training. All of those things led to confidence I didn't have before. I remember coming to Better You Fitness, sitting on a bench, and telling Grant, "I'm probably the healthiest fat person you've ever known, and there's no way I can even lose 10 pounds." And Grant's like, "You're gonna lose 10 pounds — join the Better You Fitness 90-day challenge." That was eight years ago, and 50 pounds ago, and it just really did change my life. So, newfound confidence, newfound physique — and for me, knowing that I didn't know that was out there has really pushed me to learn new skills so I can share that with other people. My goal is to pay it forward and help other people who were probably just like me, thinking, "I'm just going to look this way and feel this way my whole life," to learn there's another way — you can change even in your 40s.
What Better You Fitness Offers
So, tell us a little about what you offer at Better You Fitness. When I was brainstorming about my gym, the idea was not to overcomplicate it — I'd seen that already in the fitness space, over-complications of too many things. So the programs we offer are usually one-on-one based, which a lot of people enjoy, and then we have group classes, and then small, niche programs based off different things happening in the world. Our 90-day challenge — we've been doing it since 2014. People wanted a little competition and some stuff packaged together that really made sense for them. So mainly we offer one-on-ones, groups, and some of these smaller programs, and just try to keep it simple. Fitness is already complicated enough, so the more simplistic we can make it, the better for our clients.
We really do believe in back to the basics — eating whole foods, doing strength training — so we try to make things easy for people so they don't get overwhelmed. We offer quite a few programs, but all with the same philosophy: simple, easy, and really helping people understand they can do it, keeping it consistent, and keeping everybody moving forward.
A Program for Women in Perimenopause and Menopause
I know you're doing a new program that's similar to the 90-day challenge, but focused toward women in menopause and perimenopause. Absolutely. Through our other programs, we've learned that a lot of women come to the facility and start asking questions about how to handle menopause. Grant, we joke, is probably the most knowledgeable man about menopause — they come to me for questions and I'm like, "Well, actually, Grant knows a lot."
The program itself is designed to get people moving in the right direction sooner, so that when menopause actually hits, they're already in a good spot from a wellness and fitness perspective. Our goal is to catch people in the beginning of perimenopause so we can help educate them around nutrition, start building lean muscle to support bone health, and give those women a support group and knowledge to make it through the aging process. Menopause is going to happen to everyone, but how do we help people age gracefully and really limit the symptoms so they can have a good experience? We focus on nutrition, strength training, supplementation, and one thing that's unique — we offer a CGM, a continuous glucose monitoring system, to help women who are finding it a little challenging to lose weight.
In 20-plus years of doing this, I've had clients for 10 years — they were perimenopausal when they started and have progressed into menopause, and we realize there's just nothing for women to talk about, or it's been taboo, or they've been ignored. A lot of women just don't know where to go — they're looking for it and can't find it. I tell people all the time, my wife is going to go through it, my mom went through it, and hearing how they're getting treated, I was like, "Okay, there's something to it." So Sarah started looking into it more, and we said, "We should figure out how we can help these ladies." Just letting people know it's okay to talk about. In the last two weeks, I've had two women reach out specifically about menopause — "I've seen your posts about it, how can you help?" So opening up the conversation and helping people understand how nutrition, strength training, and supplementation can help them have a more tolerable experience as they age.
The Value of a CGM
I love that you're using the CGM, because that's something so many people are missing, and it's not accessible. It's getting more accessible, but even people who are diabetic don't always get it with their insurance — and it's just invaluable information, another tool. With the CGM, it's probably one of the first devices that can help people have that individual accountability: "Okay, I ate this, this is my blood sugar number, I did that." It offers a level of accountability that's never been there before. Grant's been talking about the CGM for a few years — we started using it a couple years ago and found it fascinating, but it was challenging for people to get, or extremely expensive. We were paying quite a bit to get access to Dexcoms and stuff like that, but this information is worth it.
What They Saw Before Perimenopause Was a Big Topic
Grant, before perimenopause was a big topic, what were you noticing with your clients in middle age where they were struggling? It's always been the sleep aspect. The hot flashes is always the biggest topic they talk about, but when we'd start asking more questions, I'd notice, "Hey, you're also struggling with sleep." And then it was the weight gain — the women always talk about the weight gain and the hot flashes, but going back and talking more, it's bad sleep, then they're getting some anxiety issues, they've noticed their cholesterol has changed in blood work. Those are some of the markers. The hot flashes is always the topic they tell me first, but there are these other hidden things. I've never experienced a hot flash, but I hear they're miserable — although the breaking of a hip or having those issues is going to be way worse than a hot flash, based on the knowledge I have. Low energy was always a big one too, and it starts to impact their daily activity, their life with their family, their moods — and they always thought, "It's just the hot flash," and again they were being ignored, just told, "Suck it up, deal with it." So that's usually where it starts, and then we dive deeper and find more.
What About Male Clients and Andropause?
We're going to be doing some more conversation around andropause. Is there anything with your male clients that you've found? Here's the thing — I probably have five to eight male clients; primarily the people I work with are females. The men that come in are like, "I give up, man, I'm at the verge, I give up." Most of them are pretty stubborn; they don't want to come see a male, but once they've reached that limit, it's because they're at the breaking point. Typically they're having some testosterone issues, and I'm trying to find doctors and people — "Hey, you need to go talk to a doctor who can run this stuff, and not run your standard stuff, but a more extensive lab panel." People that know how to read this — nothing against traditional doctors, but most of them don't know how to read it or combine the two things together, or if they see it in the normal range, "Okay, it's normal, I don't know what to tell you." They're not looking at it in comparison with other markers. So most of those guys, I'm trying to find a place for them to go and get an extensive panel done so we can look at all of it. That's kind of what we do too — the majority of our clients are women, but we have a few men looking for the health improvements, the short-term and long-term goals.
We know for sure that sarcopenia — losing muscle — happens to everyone and starts early, which is why strength training is so important. And men get osteoporosis just like women.
A Standout Success Story
Could you share a success story from one of your 90-day challenges that stands out? There are quite a few. The big success stories are people who take that information and run with it. Sarah's a big success story. Probably one of my biggest from the male perspective: I had a guy come in and he told me, "Hey, I've pulled into your parking lot probably 10 times and just sat in the parking lot and didn't have enough to come in." I remember this truck that kept pulling into the parking lot. He was like 400 pounds, extremely overweight, and he said, "I want to do this, but I don't want anybody to see me." He was in this hiding stage, so we progressively got him to a point where he was comfortable going into the 90 days. He wound up losing like 48 pounds in the 90 days with us, and then continued losing weight. He moved to Texas and wound up doing personal training at a small gym as a side gig, because he had this awesome story he could share.
Another one that's awesome: a lady who was 50 came to me and said, "I want to be able to do five push-ups when I get done, and I'd like to lose 50 pounds, but the five push-ups is really my thing." She was a busy mom in her 50s, so menopause is there. She lost 50 pounds, was able to do 10 push-ups, and then two months later ran a 5K. I have tons of them, but those really stand out. For the people who complete the 90-day challenge, they're all a success story — I can't think of anybody who completed the program who didn't reach some of their goal, even losing weight, feeling better, sleeping better, or their clothes fitting better.
My goal is a pull-up. Everybody's got goals — that's what drives and motivates people. "I want to be healthier, I want to lose weight," but it's also, "I want to be able to do that pull-up, or this sit-up, or hang for a while." That was my goal at one point too, and I remember telling Grant, and he's like, "You can do it, you'll get there, you're going to have to lose some weight, and this is what we're going to do, but I will get you to a pull-up."
Nutrition in the Training Programs
Tell us a little more about how you work nutrition into your training. We really pride ourselves on the nutrition component. A lot of gyms are just around strength training, and we always say you just can't outwork a bad diet — unless you plan to be in the gym three or four hours a day. That was the game changer for me and most people. I thought I ate healthy, and you might think you're eating the right things, but what I learned from Grant is that what you eat is important, but how you eat it, when you eat it, and the combination is what will really change what you look like and how you feel. We don't get too fancy — we still believe in whole foods.
We always say people have different lifestyles. I want to know, "What are some of the things you really enjoy?" — because you're going to go back to them. So we try to meet people there: "What's your eating style, what are your routines?" and try not to change that a whole lot unless it's just something derailing them. I tell people all the time, your nutrition right now is what it is, but maybe later it's going to be a different piece — we move through it with them on that path. A lot of places are just, "This is it, this is the only way you eat, and this is how it'll always be," and that's just not realistic; it's going to change as they change, through menopause or a lack of movement. We're seeing that even now with everybody being snowed in — people's attitudes and energy are a lot different because they're moving less inside their home and eating some poor things.
One awesome nugget Grant shared: calories dictate how much you weigh, macros dictate what you're going to look like, and your micronutrients dictate how you feel. We don't tell everybody all those details, but when we meet people where they're at and talk about their goals — "Are you trying to look a certain way, or feel a certain way?" — we can help simplify that. But you can't really replace nutritious whole foods. Grant's really great at taking recipes we find and tailoring them to be tasty and healthy — finding a better, macro-based format for a healthy item. So calories in, calories out counts, but the quality of the calories matters too. Is it 100 calories of bread or 100 calories of broccoli? There's a big difference.
The Meal Program
You guys have a meal program too. Yeah — I've done a fitness competition before and had a trainer who guided me through it, and the food was so boring, so miserable, and I thought, "There's got to be a better way." So even the meal prep — people were like, "I think I would eat that, but if I buy all that stuff and I don't like it..." So I'd say, "Hey, I made an extra, try it." People were like, "Oh," and so we tell them, "Try it; if you like it, here's the recipe." I'd love for them to buy them from us — some do, for convenience — but most people also want to see, "Is this something I could add into my diet? Is it too exhausting to make with too many ingredients, or is it worth it?" And I try to stay with an 80/20 rule for a lot of people — can you do this 80% of the time, and 20% of the time have some fun or do something off of what you normally should? It keeps them honest and motivated.
Community
How about community? You're doing these challenges with a group of people working together — how does that change the dynamic? I've lived in Lee's Summit for 20 years, and it's a great community, but when you come together on a goal, it becomes something really special. At Better You Fitness when I first started, it was a bit intimidating, even though I love sports and competitions. But I very quickly learned I had people waiting for me at the gym — there was a level of accountability. I knew when I came to a class there'd be other people there who either felt the same way I did, or were inspiring to me. Grant uses social media for private groups too, so there was never a time where I needed support or had a question I couldn't get answered. One thing that's really great about our 90-day challenge is we have past participants who come back and do it again, or become a mentor to people coming through the program. It makes the program very special, and it's really easy to come to the gym and hold yourself accountable when you know somebody's going to say, "Hey, where were you yesterday?"
Staying Up on Research
What do you guys do to stay up on new methods and research? My mind is a science mind — I love researching stuff. I love trying to find people in spaces of newer things and just get in contact with them. I find a lot of people starting stuff or learning more want to give some information out. I love that Sarah's working with you guys — doctors know some stuff, and special ones, especially ones that aren't traditional or are looking at it from a different perspective, are always great to pick their brains. I'm always watching podcasts and trying to keep up. From the training perspective, I watch stuff on the West Coast and East Coast — those aren't the same people as the Midwest, but some of those fitness concepts, and even some of the gimmicky stuff, it's nice to see it so that when it shows up here, I already know what it is and who it's for. Even going into the menopause thing — it's a thing where I'm not sure about this, but why not go to it and learn? You're always going to pick something up. I've read a lot of certification books just to read them and be like, "Okay, what is this?"
Networking and collaboration is a big part of it. Between both of us, we know quite a few people. Grant's always taught us, "Hey, I know what I know, but somebody else is going to know something — let's collaborate with them, partner with them." This is not such a niche space that there's not room for everybody, so we're constantly trying to go to events or collaborate to learn something new. And social media is big — you can learn so much from it. There's the fun edutainment side, but we've learned a ton and collaborated that way too. Sometimes there's a lot of noise, so you've got to take it all with a grain of salt, but there's a lot of information out there.
I've always been big on this, and I've never really told anybody — from a male's perspective, a lot of my clients are females, so when I was younger, I used to get Cosmopolitan, a female magazine, and I'd read it because I wanted to know what women are reading and talking about. So I think if people take that approach with menopause — obviously I'm not going through it, but what are these women reading? From the social media aspect, your algorithm gets into that, and I'm getting menopause stuff. Or I'll ask, "Hey, what's your social media saying? Can I see your phone real quick?" because they're only targeting females and I'm not getting to see what you get to see. That's the research side of me — I want to know how the women are feeling about it, and what solution is being given to them, if there is one. Sometimes it doesn't seem like there's as much, but it's getting better.
Meeting People Where They're At
One of the best things is that we try to meet people where they're at, understand and build relationships, and then take our philosophy around fitness and apply it with tips and tricks that work for them. The basics of fitness are a one-size-fits-all, but each person is different, so we really try to apply it in a way that helps them reach their goals. And we don't think we know everything — we strongly suggest people work with individuals like yourselves to understand their basics of health, get baselines, and then we can help with unique goals. We love to collaborate from an overall wellness perspective.
Over the next couple of years, things are going to change significantly. Even the hormone situation and the way the conversation around perimenopause has changed through the generations — now we have a whole generation that missed out on hormone replacement. It's incredible. Hopefully people will just continue to look and not give up — find somebody who will listen to you and help you, because the help's out there.
How to Get Involved
For any listener who wants to get involved in a challenge or the new menopause group, what are the steps? The biggest step is to reach out on social media or go to our website. There's a form on our website — it's the only automated thing we have — but once that information is sent, it's immediately responded to by either my personal cell or Sarah's personal cell. It's not going to be a series of automated stuff and a constant beating of text messages and emails. It's a personal touch that we think is super important. That's the part people tell us all the time that they liked — "I didn't get pushed to a robot and then get 40 emails about stuff that didn't matter; you immediately got to it and started asking me questions." Our goal is within less than four hours for one of us to be calling — usually faster than that. We want to know what people's goals are to make sure we can help them. We don't think we're necessarily the perfect fit for everyone, but we truly want to help people, so we ask all the questions to find out what they're trying to accomplish and see if one of our programs is a good fit.
The 90-Day Challenge Schedule
How often do you do the 90-day challenge? We only do it twice a year. We usually give away anywhere from three to $5,000 to the best transformation, split between the males and females. A lot of challenges out there are run constantly, but we find it's best to do it twice a year. We take a lot into account — holidays, kids getting out of school. We've been doing this since 2014, and it's evolved. We've been told, "Hey, Grant, the challenge ends the same weekend as Thanksgiving — that's not going to work, I'm not giving up Thanksgiving." And I'm like, "Oh, I didn't think about that." So it's been learning lessons from amazing clients who tell us what they'd love to see or what's missing, and every time we make it a little better. People who come back are like, "This challenge is different than it was three years ago."
When's the next one? February 16th is when we kick off our next 90-day challenge, and it runs through May 18th. That gives people right after Valentine's Day but before school gets out — a really good spot; we tell people now's the time to build that summer body. And even though the program starts February 16th, we'd love for people to contact us now, so we can start having conversations and get them used to the facility and building some habits, so that when the challenge comes, they get all 90 days of results.
And the menopause program? We're currently in the stage of building awareness. We'd like to get enough volume where it makes sense to really have that community, but our goal is, by the end of January or beginning of February, to kick off that program. It's shorter — six weeks. The goal is to bring awareness and knowledge around the topic and help some women who are struggling get pointed in the right direction. We really appreciate the podcast for that reason. On the coasts, people are talking about it more; it's still a little harder for women around here to talk about it, because they may have been shunned or pushed to the side. So we've been talking about how to get women — like Sarah said, she regularly has women say, "I saw this, is that real, is that a thing? I was told it's not a thing." And for us, the hardest part sometimes is that it was a traditional doctor who told them no, it's not menopause, or has thrown something at them. So we have to overcome somebody who thinks menopause is taboo or fake, or has that "just deal with it, suck it up" mentality — the old "it is what it is." That makes it a little challenging: letting these ladies know, no, that's not just how it's supposed to be, there are things you can do to alleviate this, and let's make sure the things that come don't become a problem.
There are so many things that can be done for women with menopause, and unfortunately they just don't get that in the traditional Western medicine world these days. A lot of times you'll see women reaching out to other women instead of their provider to gain that information. We talked about this too — I have people all the time fight me on the Women's Health Initiative. Hearing Mary Claire talk about it, and then me doing my thing as a research person, learning what the mess-ups were — as a person who's not a doctor, they're like, "Well, you know, the Women's Health Initiative and breast cancer," and I'm like, "That's not exactly what it was; that was done incorrectly." They have a tendency to look at me weird, so if I can get them in front of somebody with a doctor title, or someone more specialized, I have a tendency to send them, "Hey, here's Mary Claire's stuff, or here's another doctor — listen to them talk about it." So I think we're still in that stage where people are trying to be like, "Okay, maybe there was some false information given out." We're constantly having to do that too, trying to educate people. Just keep planting the seeds — truth will come out.
Well, thank you guys so much for taking the time to sit down. We'll be sure to put your website in the show notes so people can find you, and I'll definitely keep everyone updated on my progress toward a pull-up. We'd love to keep collaborating, and we'll keep trying to spread the word about menopause and the options. Thanks — have a great day. Bye-bye.